Re: Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism" -----Original Message----- From: Ben Seattle Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:46 PM To: pof-300@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [pof-300] Re: Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism" Hi Alex, My comments must be brief right now -- but I will have more to say soon. Your letter to Frank has had very positive results. You have drawn Frank out to discuss some very important questions and you have positioned yourself for an excellent follow-up. I will have some suggestions soon. For now I will offer the opinion that the two key principles under dispute are these: (1) Can discussion or debate of post-bourgeois society on SAIC's website be used to attract attention to SAIC and broaden SAIC's readership and influence as well as help develop clarity concerning the principles that will guide the efforts of the working class? You made a small error (one easy to correct) in your letter to Frank which implied that it was necessary for SAIC to take a more advanced stand than it is capable of at this time. More on that later. (2) Is the distinction in principle between: (a) the rule of the working class and (b) the rule of a single organization an important distinction on which clarity is necessary in order to rescue the revolutionary movement from the theoretical crisis which has left it paralyzed? All the other issues (for example, the study group -- or whether or not I am honest) are secondary and relatively minor. > I still don't believe he [ie: Lenin] > is advocating that this policy be > implemented globally I agree with you. I have had time to read chapter 5. My reading confirms for me that Frank is taking Lenin's comments out of context. Frank is repeating Lenin's words without understanding the circumstances, or the main content, of Lenin's argument. One issue here is that Lenin was writing about controversies that were then current. What has happened in the 90 years since the 1917 revolution (ie: the rise to power of extremely corrupt and crimial regimes in the former Soviet Union and China, etc.) demands clarity that Lenin was unable to give at the time -- as turbulent events were still unfolding. I will have more to say this weekend. All the best, Ben -----Original Message----- From: Alex G. Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:41 PM To: pof-300@yahoogroups.com Subject: [pof-300] Re: Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism" I don't have time to thoroughly read "Left-Wing Communism" now, but I have skimmed through the first 5 chapters and have found this: Frank may be correct, or partially correct. It does appear indeed that Lenin opposes these "Left" trends in communism, but Frank only quoted a very small portion of the whole work, so it's unclear what this "Left communism" really means. I've noted that Lenin says that one of the fundamental conditions for the Bolsheviks' success was that they adopted "iron discipline" upon taking power. He argues that they would not have lasted more than a couple of months had this not been the case. This is true, but it is only because of the extremely unfortunate conditions of Russia at the time. I still don't believe he is advocating that this policy be implemented globally (though I could be wrong). He also seems to define "Left communism" as supporting bourgeois democracy (i.e., representative/parliamentary democracy). If this is what his definition of "Left communism" is, then I agree that it is an infantile disorder. At any rate, this development is not necessarily relevant to the accuracy of the principles we've been advocating. We don't have to agree with everything Lenin has ever said. It is also good to note when and why this pamphlet was written while judging its merit. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter. Sincerely, Alex